22 June 2009

The day after...

Thanks to everyone who has linked here about the NOW conference, even those of you who I don't agree with. I think it is a healthy thing to have a debate over issues.

I do want to make one thing very clear - I do not think that Terry O'Neill is a Palin supporter. I have no idea. There have been comments flying in the blogosphere and Twitter that the Palin people were a rumor. I took pics of at least one of them. One of the women I took a pic of has a blog that has ripped Kim Gandy for having NOW support Barack Obama.

Now some might say, "Hey we're Clinton supporters!" But if you truly supported Hillary Clinton and what she stands for, I can't see how or why you would trash Barack Obama or vote for McCain. Furthermore, I don't see how trashing Kim Gandy and Ellie Smeal is productive. They came together VERY early in the primary race to endorse Clinton. Again, far earlier than I would have preferred. I wanted to see the endorsement taken to the conference or even announced at the conference so that Clinton would come to our conference.

More soon.


Unknown said...

The pictures you have are of NOW members that are Hillary supporters/PUMAS--you may disagree with their choice in the general election--but LOTS of NOW members were PUMAS. That's a fact. Most importantly, our organization is officially non-partisan--We are not allowed to censure any NOW member for how they vote. Disagree with the choice--but respect the sincerity of the motivation. Kim Gandy is NOT allowed to turn off the mike of someone 1) because she doesn't like how they voted 2) they criticized her (I don't know who's blog you're referring to--but I'll take your word for it). Lastly, 3 of the people rose on a "point of personal privilege" (a read card)--All were standing at the mikes BEFORE Kim Gandy introduced the speakers (I would guess intentionally). They had been called "liars" by Latifa for distributing the decline in membership of 40% and the $1million drop in membership revenues. They had a RIGHT to answer Latifa's allegation. That they were not NOW members, or pro-life or whatever is Kim Gandy spin to keep them from sharing the financial info.

Anonymous said...

let's see, why couldn't we support barack obama? His own sexist comments, his not speaking out against the media and their sexism against clinton, the DNC giving Barack Obama delegates from MI that Hillary earned, fraud in the caucus systems. Obama using RW talking points against Hillary's healthcare plan.

How any woman's group think he is an advocate for women is beyond me.

Then to watch the leading feminist groups like NOW and NARAL say Barack Obama is what a feminist looks like was insulting.

When did women's groups stop fighting sexism because they aren't a democrat. No one expected women's groups to to campaign for Sarah Palin, but we god damn did expect feminists to fight sexism and misogyny.

Do any of you know that FOCA is not a legislative priority according to Obama?? Do you even know he promised that it would be the first piece of legislation he pushed for and signed once he became president?

What about the conscience rule. Oh sorry, it's held up in the faith based initiave office of the WH. The theocrats are trying to find common ground. What common ground is there concerning women's access to contraception?????

A said...

Veronica, please go read:

soopermouse said...

"But if you truly supported Hillary Clinton and what she stands for, I can't see how or why you would trash Barack Obama or vote for McCain."

I don't know what it looks liek from your planet, but on this one Hillary had the democrat nomination stolen from her by the people who supported Barack Obama. maybe you were in a stasis last year and didn't notice that she won the popular vote and that delegates were taken from her to be given to him? If you think any human with a conscience would have supported the perpetrated of such a heinous act upon a woman and the way he used sexism as a weapon against her... you hae issues that only a professional or a team of them can handle.

And btw? You probably found out by now if you ahve the ability to folow a link- the picture you posted is of Dr Lynette Long, a woman who worked for feminism since before you were born. Your Dunce cap awaits you at Violet's.
laugh so hard

Octogalore said...

Veronica -- I think it is admirable that you welcome a debate. That's often not the case in feminist circles. I think working through and despite disagreements is healthy and basically the only way to remain a force. So: kudos for that.

RE the frequently-stated confusion as to how a Hillary supporter could have voted McCain. I'm one who did. It's important to note that there are a lot of factors that go in to voting. A few differences can move one in another direction.

In my case, my economic policies have, for as long as I can remember, been closer to someone like Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins -- both Republicans. So Hillary was to the left of where I am fiscally, but basically along the lines of a Blue Dog. My social policies echo hers. And beyond that, I find her personally admirable.

With Obama, I found him admirable as well. Yet, economically he was saying things (eg, Social Security cap lifting) that were way, way to the left of where I am. Socially, I felt he was to the right of where I am, and basically where McCain was in 2004 and where I think he still is when not in campaign mode. McCain's mom is in her 90s and I was pretty confident he'd last a term. He and Palin, despite her personal philosophies, were running on a reform government agenda.

At this point, with the FOCA and DOMA events, as well as the economic happenings, I feel confident that HRC would have been, as I'd thought, much closer to the policies I would espouse. I feel the same way about McCain. I understand others may disagree, and may have principled reasons for doing so.

Hopefully that helps to explain how it's quite possible to support a Democrat and to vote Republican, based on a range of issues.

Octogalore said...

I should also add a couple other non-policy-related factors that went into the decision:

1) I was uncomfortable with Obama's treatment of Alice Palmer and other senior women, including most prominently HRC.

2) I felt Obama had spent most of his political career campaigning. I would be very nervous about a third year associate running a law firm, and was concerned about a first-term senator, however impressive in his speaking and intelligence, running a country.

Veronica said...

Octogalore - Thank you! Thank you so much for your very level-headed explanation. And it makes perfect sense.

I know some bloggers felt that the PUMA movement was totally created by the GOP to trick women into voting for McCain. I never bought that. I figured that HRC women who didn't vote for Obama were either like you, on that moderate side who could swing both ways or women like Paula seems to be, who were just gawd damn pissed at Obama & the DNC that they voted for McCain.

It's the latter that I still don't fully understand. I do understand the others who either stayed home or voted Green.

Seriously, thanks for the thoughts to chew on.

Octogalore said...

Veronica, thanks!

I found myself writing a book on your site, but I attended your session at WAM in 2008 and was impressed by you and what you had to say. So I thought there was a good chance you'd understand, if not necessarily agree with the ultimate decision, how a rational woman could go from A to B without being tricked. I think most women, whatever our rationale, are no more likely to be tricked into a voting decision than a man would be.

In a way, this meme (which I know you don't subscribe to) of women being "tricked" parallels the one about black conservatives being tricked or selling out rather than making a principled choice based on their beliefs. I've read Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, and others, and while I don't agree with everything they say substantively, I have no doubt that they are sincere in their beliefs and form decisions based on those beliefs.

Unknown said...


are you out of your mind? I find it mind boggling that you have no clue why any feminist would vote against Obama. You clearly are not a true feminist. Did you not see the amount of unprecedented sexism that occured in this election? Open your eyes. Barack Obama doesn't care about women and he is not a feminist. We are liberal democratic women who are disgusted with the sexism and the discrimination, dishonestly and lies that came from Obama and his campaign.

Just because the media tries their best to not talk about us doesn't mean we don't exist - we exist in numbers LARGE numbers. 10 million democrats voted for McCain as a protest vote for what happend in this election against Hillary Clinton.

OPEN YOUR EYES VERONICA. You are clueless and you are not a true feminist.

Shannon Drury said...

Obviously, Veronica and I have a big difference of opinion when it comes to the NOW election results. But this "more feminist than thou" crap has got to stop. Veronica walks the walk every day. Give it a rest, John.

Anonymous said...

"if you truly supported Hillary Clinton and what she stands for, I can't see how or why you would trash Barack Obama..."

Two words (of many, many possible): Jon Favreau.

Then again, I was thrown out of the party for being a racist, so what would I know?